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	<title>Comments on: Look at my giant sad</title>
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	<description>I keep my clothes on for money.</description>
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		<title>By: Stevo Darkly</title>
		<link>http://x.superbadgirl.com/blog/archives/3967/comment-page-1#comment-38531</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevo Darkly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:22:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://x.superbadgirl.com/blog/?p=3967#comment-38531</guid>
		<description>Ha, that&#039;s not the end of it.

By one of those amazing coincidences that sometimes make me wonder whether &quot;mere coincidence&quot; might be more than that ...

Shortly &lt;i&gt;after&lt;/i&gt; I wrote that, I went to This Other Forum Where I Hang Out (though not so frequently nowadays), and a friend there &lt;i&gt;just happened&lt;/i&gt; to post a link to a Scientific American article about a very similar topic: the evolution of depression and it&#039;s possible advantages.

(I know a sad spell is not the same as clinical depression, and I hope the latter is not what you&#039;ve got, but bear with me. Some of the same thoughts could still apply.)

As it turns out, the article speculates in the opposite direction of me. And it seems to encourage the &quot;wallowing&quot; response. See, the article notes that depression tends to focus the mind on a lot of introspective, highly analytical thinking -- and encourages social withdrawal so that such thinking tends not to be interrupted. Depression, therefore, appears to have evolved as a mechanism to foster problem-solving.

Well, I guess both hypotheses could be true. If a problem is readily solvable,Big Sad tends to concentrate the mind on problem solving. And if it&#039;s not, then visible signs of Big Sad tends to attract the rest of the primate band into a protective group.

Anyway, I thought you might be interested in these excerpts from the article:

&quot;So what could be so useful about depression? Depressed people often think intensely about their problems. These thoughts are called ruminations; they are persistent and depressed people have difficulty thinking about anything else. Numerous studies have also shown that this thinking style is often highly analytical. They dwell on a complex problem, breaking it down into smaller components, which are considered one at a time.

&quot;This analytical style of thought, of course, can be very productive. Each component is not as difficult, so the problem becomes more tractable. Indeed, when you are faced with a difficult problem, such as a math problem, feeling depressed is often a useful response that may help you analyze and solve it. For instance, in some of our research, we have found evidence that people who get more depressed while they are working on complex problems in an intelligence test tend to score higher on the test.

&quot;Analysis requires a lot of uninterrupted thought, and depression coordinates many changes in the body to help people analyze their problems without getting distracted...

&quot;Many other symptoms of depression make sense in light of the idea that analysis must be uninterrupted. The desire for social isolation, for instance, helps the depressed person avoid situations that would require thinking about other things... 

&quot;But is there any evidence that depression is useful in analyzing complex problems? For one thing, if depressive rumination were harmful, as most clinicians and researchers assume, then bouts of depression should be slower to resolve when people are given interventions that encourage rumination, such as having them write about their strongest thoughts and feelings. However, the opposite appears to be true. Several studies have found that expressive writing promotes quicker resolution of depression, and they suggest that this is because depressed people gain insight into their problems...

&quot;Sometimes people are reluctant to disclose the reason for their depression because it is embarrassing or sensitive, they find it painful, they believe they must soldier on and ignore them, or they have difficulty putting their complex internal struggles into words.

&quot;But depression is nature’s way of telling you that you’ve got complex social problems that the mind is intent on solving. Therapies should try to encourage depressive rumination rather than try to stop it, and they should focus on trying to help people solve the problems that trigger their bouts of depression. (There are several effective therapies that focus on just this.) It is also essential, in instances where there is resistance to discussing ruminations, that the therapist try to identify and dismantle those barriers.

&quot;When one considers all the evidence, depression seems less like a disorder where the brain is operating in a haphazard way, or malfunctioning. Instead, depression seems more like the vertebrate eye—an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function.&quot;

All of the foregoing assumes that 1) the problem at hand is a social one, and that 2) it can be &quot;solved&quot; with the application of sufficient analytical thought. Which may not always apply.

But if you can&#039;t figure out how to solve the problem, you can figure out how to deal with it.

And it sounds like writing can&#039;t hurt either way, since it involves both rumination and communication.

Here is the URL of the article, although it is a little, well, depressing ...

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:10px; display:block; width:80px' ><img alt='' src='http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/f2dced94e33e8ec4b5caf340ddd884dd?s=80&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif%3Fs%3D80&amp;r=R' class='avatar avatar-80 photo' height='80' width='80' /></span>Ha, that&#8217;s not the end of it.</p>
<p>By one of those amazing coincidences that sometimes make me wonder whether &#8220;mere coincidence&#8221; might be more than that &#8230;</p>
<p>Shortly <i>after</i> I wrote that, I went to This Other Forum Where I Hang Out (though not so frequently nowadays), and a friend there <i>just happened</i> to post a link to a Scientific American article about a very similar topic: the evolution of depression and it&#8217;s possible advantages.</p>
<p>(I know a sad spell is not the same as clinical depression, and I hope the latter is not what you&#8217;ve got, but bear with me. Some of the same thoughts could still apply.)</p>
<p>As it turns out, the article speculates in the opposite direction of me. And it seems to encourage the &#8220;wallowing&#8221; response. See, the article notes that depression tends to focus the mind on a lot of introspective, highly analytical thinking &#8212; and encourages social withdrawal so that such thinking tends not to be interrupted. Depression, therefore, appears to have evolved as a mechanism to foster problem-solving.</p>
<p>Well, I guess both hypotheses could be true. If a problem is readily solvable,Big Sad tends to concentrate the mind on problem solving. And if it&#8217;s not, then visible signs of Big Sad tends to attract the rest of the primate band into a protective group.</p>
<p>Anyway, I thought you might be interested in these excerpts from the article:</p>
<p>&#8220;So what could be so useful about depression? Depressed people often think intensely about their problems. These thoughts are called ruminations; they are persistent and depressed people have difficulty thinking about anything else. Numerous studies have also shown that this thinking style is often highly analytical. They dwell on a complex problem, breaking it down into smaller components, which are considered one at a time.</p>
<p>&#8220;This analytical style of thought, of course, can be very productive. Each component is not as difficult, so the problem becomes more tractable. Indeed, when you are faced with a difficult problem, such as a math problem, feeling depressed is often a useful response that may help you analyze and solve it. For instance, in some of our research, we have found evidence that people who get more depressed while they are working on complex problems in an intelligence test tend to score higher on the test.</p>
<p>&#8220;Analysis requires a lot of uninterrupted thought, and depression coordinates many changes in the body to help people analyze their problems without getting distracted&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Many other symptoms of depression make sense in light of the idea that analysis must be uninterrupted. The desire for social isolation, for instance, helps the depressed person avoid situations that would require thinking about other things&#8230; </p>
<p>&#8220;But is there any evidence that depression is useful in analyzing complex problems? For one thing, if depressive rumination were harmful, as most clinicians and researchers assume, then bouts of depression should be slower to resolve when people are given interventions that encourage rumination, such as having them write about their strongest thoughts and feelings. However, the opposite appears to be true. Several studies have found that expressive writing promotes quicker resolution of depression, and they suggest that this is because depressed people gain insight into their problems&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;Sometimes people are reluctant to disclose the reason for their depression because it is embarrassing or sensitive, they find it painful, they believe they must soldier on and ignore them, or they have difficulty putting their complex internal struggles into words.</p>
<p>&#8220;But depression is nature’s way of telling you that you’ve got complex social problems that the mind is intent on solving. Therapies should try to encourage depressive rumination rather than try to stop it, and they should focus on trying to help people solve the problems that trigger their bouts of depression. (There are several effective therapies that focus on just this.) It is also essential, in instances where there is resistance to discussing ruminations, that the therapist try to identify and dismantle those barriers.</p>
<p>&#8220;When one considers all the evidence, depression seems less like a disorder where the brain is operating in a haphazard way, or malfunctioning. Instead, depression seems more like the vertebrate eye—an intricate, highly organized piece of machinery that performs a specific function.&#8221;</p>
<p>All of the foregoing assumes that 1) the problem at hand is a social one, and that 2) it can be &#8220;solved&#8221; with the application of sufficient analytical thought. Which may not always apply.</p>
<p>But if you can&#8217;t figure out how to solve the problem, you can figure out how to deal with it.</p>
<p>And it sounds like writing can&#8217;t hurt either way, since it involves both rumination and communication.</p>
<p>Here is the URL of the article, although it is a little, well, depressing &#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary" rel="nofollow">http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=depressions-evolutionary</a></p>
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		<title>By: SuperBadGirl</title>
		<link>http://x.superbadgirl.com/blog/archives/3967/comment-page-1#comment-38526</link>
		<dc:creator>SuperBadGirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Oct 2009 03:18:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://x.superbadgirl.com/blog/?p=3967#comment-38526</guid>
		<description>A) You really are the nicest guy. 
B) Never ask a rhetorical evolutionary question within the hearing of someone who&#039;s really, really into nature studies.
C) I get your point about the primates, and actually think your reasoning is sound. Maybe it was the loner primates who started the poo-flinging traditions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:10px; display:block; width:80px' ><a rel='external nofollow' href='http://www.superbadgirl.com'><img alt='' src='http://0.gravatar.com/avatar/80a1b42a5ddbf514cdb233141b9894f3?s=80&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif%3Fs%3D80&amp;r=R' class='avatar avatar-80 photo' height='80' width='80' /></a></span>A) You really are the nicest guy.<br />
B) Never ask a rhetorical evolutionary question within the hearing of someone who&#8217;s really, really into nature studies.<br />
C) I get your point about the primates, and actually think your reasoning is sound. Maybe it was the loner primates who started the poo-flinging traditions?</p>
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		<title>By: Stevo Darkly</title>
		<link>http://x.superbadgirl.com/blog/archives/3967/comment-page-1#comment-38522</link>
		<dc:creator>Stevo Darkly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://x.superbadgirl.com/blog/?p=3967#comment-38522</guid>
		<description>I think the ability to feel a Big Sad has actually been selected for as a survival trait. Or at least the ability to &lt;i&gt;show&lt;/i&gt; a Big Sad, which is an effect of feeling a Big Sad and thus positively correlated with it.

When you show a Big Sad, your primate band instintively gathers around you. Naturally, they want to know the reason for your Big Sad. Selfishly, it might be something that could affect them too, so they want to know what the potential problem is so they can avoid it themselves. Slightly less selfishly, even if the problem affects only you, you are a member of the primate band, and thus whatever weakens you also weakens the band.

So your cohorts gather and try to investigate the problem. Best case, they are able to help you solve it.

Worst case, they are able to sympathize, which &quot;solves nothing&quot; but at least reminds you that you are loved, which helps partly counteract the problem that is causing the Big Sad. (At least for most people this is so. The effect may be resisted by people who strongly resist being loved.)

In the very least case, when a bunch of fellow primates are instinctively gathered around you in concern, they might coincidentally do something goofy and amusing, which might at least temporarily distract you from whatever is causing the Big Sad.

Plus, when they are gathered around you like that, they can at least be around to help protect you from other dangers while you are focused primarily on the cause of the Big Sad.

The ability to attract fellow primates who are able to perhaps solve your problems, love you, protect you or at least beneficially distract you is a survival-enhancing trait, thus the ability to feel and thus show a Big Sad is perpetuated. QED.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class='eg-image' style='float:right; margin-left:10px; display:block; width:80px' ><img alt='' src='http://1.gravatar.com/avatar/f2dced94e33e8ec4b5caf340ddd884dd?s=80&amp;d=http%3A%2F%2Fuse.perl.org%2Fimages%2Fpix.gif%3Fs%3D80&amp;r=R' class='avatar avatar-80 photo' height='80' width='80' /></span>I think the ability to feel a Big Sad has actually been selected for as a survival trait. Or at least the ability to <i>show</i> a Big Sad, which is an effect of feeling a Big Sad and thus positively correlated with it.</p>
<p>When you show a Big Sad, your primate band instintively gathers around you. Naturally, they want to know the reason for your Big Sad. Selfishly, it might be something that could affect them too, so they want to know what the potential problem is so they can avoid it themselves. Slightly less selfishly, even if the problem affects only you, you are a member of the primate band, and thus whatever weakens you also weakens the band.</p>
<p>So your cohorts gather and try to investigate the problem. Best case, they are able to help you solve it.</p>
<p>Worst case, they are able to sympathize, which &#8220;solves nothing&#8221; but at least reminds you that you are loved, which helps partly counteract the problem that is causing the Big Sad. (At least for most people this is so. The effect may be resisted by people who strongly resist being loved.)</p>
<p>In the very least case, when a bunch of fellow primates are instinctively gathered around you in concern, they might coincidentally do something goofy and amusing, which might at least temporarily distract you from whatever is causing the Big Sad.</p>
<p>Plus, when they are gathered around you like that, they can at least be around to help protect you from other dangers while you are focused primarily on the cause of the Big Sad.</p>
<p>The ability to attract fellow primates who are able to perhaps solve your problems, love you, protect you or at least beneficially distract you is a survival-enhancing trait, thus the ability to feel and thus show a Big Sad is perpetuated. QED.</p>
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